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Comments for Wagner Case Goes To The Jury
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Let's do a little research in what the supreme court says about Police use of force.... I found it interesting that the Supreme Court, in their decision in Graham v Connor, stated: "The calculus of reasonableness must embody allowance for the fact that police officers are often forced to make split-second judgments in circumstances that are tense, uncertain, and rapidly evolving - about the amount of force that is necessary in a particular situation." Graham v Connor provides the general framework for assessing whether a particular use of force is legal under the Fourth Amendment. This, like most general standards found in Fourth Amendment precedent, operates through a balancing test. Courts applying this test must pay "careful attention to the facts and circumstances of each particular case, including the severity of the crime at issue, whether the suspect poses an immediate threat to the safety of the officers or others, and whether he is actively resisting arrest or attempting to evade arrest by flight." This judgment is made "from the perspective of the reasonable officer on the scene rather than with the 20/20 vision of hindsight." All quotations are from the Supreme Court Opinion. From the sounds of it the Supreme Court ruling shows that excessive force was not used.
Maybe you should read the post until you comprehend what he wrote. He used the shooting example as an EXAMPLE! Of course any force can become excessive, but Duh was using the most extreme case as his example. Which case are you referring to when you mention "Kicking the snot out of the guy."? The entire video, available on YouTube, shows Wagoner standing on his own after the handcuffs were on and the booking photo shows NO signs of trauma. And just a little insider info, Douglas County Corrections will refuse to book anyone with injuries until seen at a hospital. They ask the arresting officer and the arrestee if they are sick or injured before taking custody. It's pretty obvious Wagoner was physically fine after the incident. Just watch the full length video, not the video released by Mark Welch (agenda, attention seeker, and overall busy body).
Duh, you just demonstrated that you have absolutely no concept of right and wrong and what is excessive and what isn't. maybe that is why the OPD has problems with the public. Excessive force does not have to only involve a shooting. You can have excessive force by slamming a suspect into a car when it isn't needed. Slapping cuffs on someone for mouthing off is excessive force. Excessive force can be to the extreme like shooting a person who is running away or who dropped their weapon, and excessive force is kicking the snot out of a guy on the ground because he mouthed off and called the police "killers." What the OPD should take away from this case is that they are not above the law. They have a HUGE problem with the public, and attitudes like yours that show a lack of understanding as to what force is nessicary is DANGEROUS to both the public and to the OPD.
Because I've arrested people that don't want to go to jail. I've had to fight people that are fighting back. I live in the real world of police work and I know our training and I know the atmosphere of what was going on that night because I have been to numerous scenes where the police are grossly outnumbered by people that don't want us to be there. Officers have to make a quick and certain arrest and apprhension and have to use overwhelming force to get a combative suspect into custody before things escalate.
Who is out to get who?
You have no concept of excessive force and self defense. If I'm working and I see a suspect shoot my partner and can defend myself and my partner by shooting that suspect. If that suspect immediately drops his gun and puts his hands in the air and I still shoot him then I have used excessive force. Officers being fired for excessive force does not mean that the punch didn't happen, when the punch happens it does not mean to officer can do whatever they want in "self-defense". You make no sense.
Wy were they fired??? Political pressure from "Community leaders.". Here's how I see this playing out. Wagoner takes a plea deal, probation probably. The two officers get there jobs back through mediation. And the Mayor, and retired chief stand in front of the media and say "We did everything we could." OPD administration bowed to a bunch of loud mouths and so called "Experts" on policing. When true use of force experts come in and testify to what they see on the tape, and the lack of injuries to Wagoner, both officers will have their jobs back. Police work isn't pretty or for the faint of heart. It's not like TV or movies, perfectly scripted with the bad guy giving up, or one well placed judo chop ending the fight. Law enforcement exists in the real world that most people only admit to when their story starts or ends with "I was so scared when..."
The beating you refer to led to as many injuries as a pillow fight would have.
Maybe because two officers were fired over the incident.
Amen
You are still justifying the cops beating him like that after they have been fired even? WHY? You really believe they were right?
A police officer can only use the force nessicary to subdue a suspect. An officer getting fired for using excessive force means that that officer used more force than nessicary to subdue a suspect. If Mr. Wagner had punched an officer in the back of the head more force would be needed to subdue him so he wouldn't harm other officers or the staff at the hospital. Kicking him to subdue him wouldn't be exssessive force, but instead, as someone else had said, kicking him would be self defense for the officers. I think what many are getting at is that we cannot see firing two police officers if they were only defending themselves from a guy who punch another officer in the back of the head. Since those officers were fired for exsessive force, Mr. Wagner had not done anything to those officers to warrant them kicking him. That is why these firing are key to this case. Why would anyone be fired for defending themselves, their fellow brothers and sisters, and the public?
It it was a converstion with a different context then why didn' Wagner testify and deny punching a cop? Because if he did then the audio would have made it into court to dispute his testimony of not doing anything. Shapiro had even said Wagner was going to testify until the audio came out. Why the change of heart? Take the blinders off man. Now it's the ponytail? I thought it was his race. Can't keep your broad sweeping, anti-cop rhetoric straight?
First they came for the Poor, and I did not speak out-- Because I was not Poor. Then they came for the Minorities, and I did not speak out-- Because I was not a Minority. Then they came for the Blue Collar Workers, and I did not speak out-- Because I was not a Blue Collar Worker. Then they came for me--and there was no one left to speak for me.
Let's not forget that this case isn't about what the police did or not do, it's about whether Wagner assaulted a police officer. The behavior of the police has been addressed and firings have been made as needed. If Wagner assaulted an officer, he needs to be held accountable regardless of what happened after the fact.